EAST ST. LOUIS - Two days of constitutional bench trial on the Illinois weapon ban produced no sparks and the second day ended with a thud.
U.S. District Judge Stephen McGlynn returned from recess around 3 p.m. on Tuesday, Sept. 17, and learned the parties had no further business.
By then it looked like McGlynn wanted trial more than they did, which it looked like all along.
A schedule the parties jointly proposed last year would have closed discovery this month.
No one opposed that schedule except McGlynn and Thomas Maag of Wood River, counsel for a group that filed one of four suits in McGlynn’s court.
McGlynn declared he’d hold trial this summer and he met the deadline.
He focused trial on the single issue of whether the Second Amendment protects weapons on the list the legislature enacted.
He’ll study issues of tradition and standing strictly on paper.
Attorney Andrew Lothson of Chicago opened trial by stating the law banned civilian purchase of semi automatic rifles capable of accepting detachable magazines greater than ten rounds.
He said it banned such magazines.
He also said it banned semi automatic pistols capable of accepting detachable magazines greater than 15 rounds and banned such magazines.
“It also bans many of the most popular shotguns including those used right here in Southern Illinois for duck hunting," Lothson said.
“These incredibly popular firearms are chosen, owned and used for lawful purposes.”
He said plaintiffs would present evidence that weapons on the list are commonly held by civilians for self defense and other lawful purposes.
He said they’re not predominantly useful for military or law enforcement. He said the state would not produce a live witness from Illinois.
He said state’s witness Jason Dempsey owns a semi automatic rifle with a 30 round magazine for personal use and benefit.
Assistant attorney general Christopher Wells said Illinois residents testified in the General Assembly about the Fourth of July shooting in Highland Park.
He said the Seventh Circuit appellate court found an AR-15 is almost the same as an M16 machine gun.
He said the Supreme Court ruled that weapons most useful in military service can be banned.
He said plaintiffs believed all they had to do was count modern sporting rifles.
“Evidence shows that the weapons and magazines Illinois restricts aren’t really being used for self defense," Wells said.
He said the primary difference between AR-15 and M16 is the automatic or burst setting.
First witness Scott Pulaski, owner of Piasa Armory in East Alton, testified his strategy was to have several AR types in stock at all times.
“That’s what our customers wanted,” Pulaski said.
“We have customers seemingly weekly that have not heard of PICA,” initials for Protecting Illinois Communities Act.
He said he sells in a region from Jacksonville to Fairview Heights.
He said he had women, older people and people with apparent disabilities customers who wanted self defense.
Assistant attorney general John Hazinski asked Pulaski if he recommended SKS with a detachable magazine for self defense.
Pulaski said he recommends it because the fixed magazine version is one of the few that’s allowed.
McGlynn, with more freedom to ask questions than with a jury, asked Pulaski about recoil from .50 caliber rifles that you can hold on a shoulder.
Pulaski said it depends.
McGlynn said, “There’s a difference between Andre the Giant and Dorothy the gymnast.
“Maybe Andre the Giant could fire several rounds of a fifty caliber rifle standing there but for most people it would be very difficult to control because of the kick you get.”
He asked if it wasn’t uncommon to see someone fire and hit themselves in the head with it.
Pulaski said, “For an inexperienced shooter, yes.”
Plaintiffs then called former Marine master gunner Jeffrey Eby of Missouri, who served 28 years and engaged in combat four times including once for 57 days straight.
He testified that among the firearms on the ban list, two or three could be useful in combat.
He said military weapons have key performance parameters.
He said he hadn’t heard of the military issuing any semi automatic weapons.
He said he met foreign military personnel and they didn’t have semi automatic rifles except for some Turks who had them but didn’t have ammunition.
He said he used an automatic weapon at the battle of Fallujah in Iraq in 2002.
He said a research project found soldiers shot more at areas than at persons and had a higher rate of hits with automatic weapons.
He said the volume of bullets was superior to well aimed shots, “because we don’t see them.”
He said if he put himself in a situation alone with a rifle, “It would be suicide, I know.”
He said he wouldn’t want any limit on his ability to defend himself.
He said defense department rules of engagement limited what he could do.
He said limits got people in harm’s way.
“I have to accept the risk they’re putting on me so something worse doesn’t happen,” he said.
McGlynn asked Eby if he was trained for ambush and Eby said yes.
McGlynn said, “What’s the first thing you grab?”
Eby said, “My rifle.”
McGlynn said, “Not your pack or anything else?”
Eby said, “I’m going to a position where I already have ammunition.”
McGlynn asked if he used military training to defend himself at home and he said yes.
Eby said, “I’m looking for the first weapon I can grab.”
McGlynn asked about average persons using AK-47’s and Eby said, “It’s what the police show up with and it’s what I need to have first.”
Lothson asked Eby how many rounds he fired and Eby said hundreds of thousands.
Lothson asked where his home is and he said Missouri.
Lothson asked Eby if he could bring his firearms to Illinois if he wanted to move there and
Eby said, “Not at all.”
Lothson asked if the law provided no exception for a former Marine and Eby said, “As far as I understand this law, correct.”
On Tuesday, former Remington vice president James Ronkainen of Kentucky testified.